The Unqualified Culinary Critics

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Hello, we're the Unqualified Culinary Critics, a podcast centered around food and cultural experiences. We want to not only share our own perspectives, but hope that these stories connect, in some way, to each one of you as well.

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When I was in elementary school, I had a music teacher who's Jewish, and during Hanukkah she would teach us a little bit about the holiday. We played dreidel, and I remember enjoying the game. As years went by, I started to get fascinated with Judaism overall, and of course I mean that in a positive way. So on this episode we will be discussing Hanukkah. Joining us from last episode we have Lidor. Lidor, thank you for joining us.

0:00:35
Of course, thank you for having me again. I'm excited to talk about this holiday. It's very interesting.

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So from previous conversations we had at work, because we're actually co-workers, you talked about your Jewish faith. And last time we had a big conversation, before the production started, we talked about Hanukkah and if you celebrated it. Yeah, I definitely celebrate Hanukkah

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I do not celebrate Christmas on a literal level. However, I like to You know, I since we do live in America and the traditions here a little bit different. I really do enjoy Christmas radio I like the music. I love the vibes. I love the festivities and the energy and how people feel during these times I just I personally do not have a Christmas tree in my house, and nor do we celebrate it to a literal extent, but we do celebrate Hanukkah at my house. We light the menorah or the Hanukkiah. Menorah are typically bigger, but some people like to call it that, but we light the Hanukkiah at my house for sure, and we do it for eight beautiful days. It's a great history lesson as to why we do this.

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Would you like to go into the history of it?

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Sure, we can totally elaborate about it. I'm no rabbi, so I'm not that precise or I have reasoning, but I can tell you just from what I know that Hanukkah is basically the festival of lights and the story of lights. So many, many, many years ago, it's been known throughout history that unfortunately Jews were kind of just prosecuted for whom they are and what they believe in. In more modern times, it's more about just like concluding and stereotypes and whatever and whatnot. But back in the day, in ancient Greece, Jews were basically penalized for just the simple task of taking out a Torah scroll or a book and studying and learning Judaism. So being able to practice your Judaism was a no bueno for the Greek people. They were very upset about it. They would try to enforce wearing togas and just like their way of life and worshipping the golden pigs that they had or just like the statues that they would pray to. And that's like one of the biggest thing in Judaism is to never like worship an idol. That's like one of the things. But that's what happened is that we would get prosecuted for doing that. And so it ended up happening where Jews would have to sort of hide and sort of like hide what they were doing for learning. Because if they were caught learning Judaism, they would be in a lot loads of trouble. So what they would do is when the Greek people would come in to investigate their homes or, you know, sort of knock on their door to see what they're doing just to check up on them. The Jews would take out a thing of what we know today is called a dreidel. And the dreidel is sort of just like a spinner that you spin on top, you play a game with it. And there's like a whole, there's a specific way to play this game that I'm not the best at it. I've never really cared to know actually how to play dreidel. But the idea is that they use the dreidel to tell the Greek people, it's like, no, we're just here, we're playing, playing table games, we're passing time, we're not really learning right now anyways, like we're not doing anything. So it was more of just like a hiding gesture, was to just like play with toppers and kind of like distract the eye of the Greek people. So that's why we spin dreidels, which is really interesting. But the dreidels today, they have letters on it that says in Hebrew letters of different different letters, which stands for Nes Gedol Hayah Sham. So a big miracle happened over there. And if you have a dreidel in Israel it says Sham not, or I'm sorry in America it says Sham and Israel it says Po. So Nesgedolah ya Po which means here. So the dreidels over there are a little bit different and the dreidels in America are a little bit different. Again it's if you have one in America it's more about the miracle happened over there and in Israel it's like okay the miracle happened here so the dreidels are a little bit different depending on the locations. But the reason as to why this holiday came to be and why it's so popular and known is basically sort of again the sad history of it. Unfortunately, the Jews had two very big temples, very known, very beautiful, well-invested temples. And unfortunately, these temples were destroyed. You know, the people would walk in there, whomever the people were, and they just kind of just destroyed the entire place. And as unfortunate as it is, like you just like, you know, thinking about going to some religious place and destroying it just because he wanted to is obviously it's rude, it's not okay, but it's also devastating, you know, like this is the lives of the people, this is what they know, this is what they love and you're just gonna go in there and destroy it. So everything was totally torn apart, totally. And with this temple, they basically lit, they had like different, I don't know what the exact word is, like a kettle, like one of those things where you hold a fluid and you can like pour it into a, like a vase almost, but they would have like a container of all the oils that they would use to light and create light with the oil. And all the oil that they had, all their stock was completely destroyed. They had no way to get light, except they found one little oil, like pot of oil. They found one tiny, tiny little pot of oil, which was a lot smaller than the rest of them like okay? Well, we'll have light for the night, but this little pot of oil lasted for eight straight days this little oil after everything was so destroyed that they they lit the menorah over there and Everything was just lit up for eight straight days. It was a miracle of lights because we didn't have anything We didn't everything was gone destroyed So it's just like it's so amazing that something was able to last us while we were able to resupply or get what we needed. And then there was like a whole war that broke out. It was Judah the Maccabee who kind of like led the Jews in retaliation to what the Greek people were doing. And so they had like a sordid shield and it was like a war. And so I guess like we supposedly won that war and we're here today. But the whole idea is that, you know, be proud of where you come from, what you have and what you know and admire in life and take the miracles and being able to use that to be positive throughout the year. And it's just such a great holiday because it brings the family together. Sort of what Christmas does, you know, it's very heartwarming. And with this holiday, we also eat specific kinds of foods. And these foods are very interesting as well, which I love to talk about. We'll get to that. I'm sure I'll get asked that question. But that's basically the rundown of Hanukkah. You could say Hanukkah or Hanukkah or spell it with an H or a CH It's it's all up to interpretation. But for me, it's it's Hanukkah.

0:06:58
I like the way you told the story. I'm glad that you have more knowledge about it because I don't know so I'm glad you're able To explain it. I've been into the holiday, but I don't know how long. I don't celebrate actually I'm not going to reveal my religious affiliation here, but I will say that I am interested in the holidays in December, especially with Hanukkah. Definitely. I enjoy it too. I think there's so much warmth to it.

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I think that people, in general, just feel and act different, are more generous around these times. Maybe it's the Halloween effect, you know, you come from like October, where it's a little bit spooky, everyone likes a good scare, and then like that comes, you know, that ends, you have Thanksgiving, you're like, okay, it's time to appreciate and acknowledge the beauty of life and your family. And Hanukkah and Christmas are very similar. It's funny that they're on the same times, in month-ish, which is really cool. But the whole idea of just being together and enjoying this for eight straight days is it's a festival of lights. It's a festivity for sure. Food is really good too. We'll get to that.

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Yeah, I do want to reveal another thing, but we will be asking you some questions shortly But I remember I was in choir and orchestra and we would be doing some songs about Hanukkah I do remember one song and please correct me if I am saying it wrong because I can't pronounce things

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Well, it's a great song. It's because of my teacher in elementary school and because of her, you, and everyone I interacted in the past, I'm able to know. We typically sing Ma'uz Tzur as soon as we finish lighting the candles of the night. So we'll say the prayers, we'll light the candle, and as soon as we light the candles and we see them shining, we start singing the song Ma'uz Tzur. And, you know, singing, being together, having a good time. It's a great song, yeah. Do you know any additional songs besides that one? I know a few songs, definitely. I was also in choir growing up. I like to sing. I don't really sing much for out of any more, just kind of on my own. It's like a concert in my car sometimes, but I do know a few Hanukkah songs just from choir and growing up. There was a Spanish song that we used to sing because a lot of Jews a long time ago, including my grandfather, spoke the ancient language of Ladino, which is an ancient Hebrew Spanish. And so there was a Hanukkah song that was in Spanish it was talking about like the numbers of candles I know that one there's just there's different songs as well I'm kind of blanking out right now but if you go to someone's house and you light candles sometimes they'll sing maus tzu or sometimes they'll sing something else but I typically know like from this from the sound of it like if I hear it like I'll be able to sing along with it but as far as titles I'm not I'm not that uh that good with titles when it comes to Chanukah songs because it's more of like tradition it's not like an actual like it is a thing these songs but it's just more of just like traditionally saying them more of like actually recognizing the song itself but no I don't know the actual names of other ones. Maus Tula is

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definitely the third like top that's the top one for sure. Okay so we're going to be talking about the foods and stuff, so do you have any questions to start off, Sierra?

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Hmm. That's a good one. So I know that Hanukkah lasts eight days, right?

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Right.

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So do you have any foods that are eaten on certain days or foods that are eaten every one of those days, which...

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That's a really good idea. We don't have a thing where you eat a specific food on a specific day, like on the third day you're supposed to eat, I don't know, something else. It's a great idea. I may implement that system just because it's a little bit fun and having something to look forward to, but no, it's like the holiday starts and you're typically just introduced to a variety of foods that you can just eat throughout the eight days for tradition and just for out of enjoyment whenever you want. So there isn't a day system. That's a really cool idea. But no, we don't have that. The first two, or let me just say the main two foods that we eat on Hanukkah are latkes and sufganiyot. Latkes is basically a potato pancake. It's basically, I mean, you can have like a thicker version, but it's more of like a more thoughtful hash brown. That's what I'd call it. It is a little bit more thoughtful because they'll take it, they'll make it a little bit thicker and like round and they'll fry it. I like mine a little bit thinner and crispier but you can have them you know thicker and fluffier and that's that could be your preference for sure if you like it that way. But you're supposed to eat it with sour cream and applesauce on top. So you take a scoop of sour cream on it and then applesauce and you eat it together and it's supposed to be this like sweet and savory combination. And the question is, is to why do we eat potato pancakes on Hanukkah? Like why? What's the relevance with that? And keep in mind that like these potato pancakes, these hash browns, I like them that way, like I said, are fried in oil. They're fried. So it's meant to symbolize like the miracle of Hanukkah with the oil and the menorah. And it's more of just like in symbolization to symbolize what happened back then. And like I said, the candle, the menorah was lit for eight days, so it's like you're supposed to eat, not necessarily, I mean, oily food is not really that great for you, but it's just that you're supposed to commemorate the idea that, okay, like this oil was very important, let's implement that to, I guess, our diets at this point. That's really the idea is to enjoy the food that was submerged or cooked in oil, and that's definitely the reason, is to symbolize the miracle of Hanukkah itself. So that's why we eat latkes. And suvganyot is a totally different thing. It's actually a jelly donut. Very casually, it's just a donut filled with jam inside of it. And we like to put powdered sugar on it. So there's different versions. If you go to Krispy Kreme, you'll find it literally any place, but it's more of like a, just like a jelly donut, which is sort of like untraditional, because it's like a little bit flat. So gyniot is more round. It kind of looks like, I don't know if you guys know what kippahs are. It's basically like the hat the Jewish people wear on their head, which is like how they use for prayer. So it's like it's kind of like a rounder thing. It's not flat, it's not square, but it's like round and it's filled with jam in it. And it's a Polish derived food and it's another tradition that they do. And yeah, we eat donuts. That's that's that's a very common thing. And so I did not I knew about

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latkes and I just never knew the significance of it. Yeah, pretty cool, right? Yeah, there's always

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there's always a reason as to why the Jews like either eat a certain thing or why there's like traditional foods in certain moments. It's it's it's all for acknowledging and respecting and just being able to live the traditions. The actual idea of why we eat Suvganyot, I'm not really too educated as to why we eat it, but it's more of just like a sweet thing. I guess like on Google it says like the Lord's Consolation Prize, but also a staple of annual Hanukkah celebrations. Like it's very broad, but it's just like more of a tradition thing. Suvganyot is a very, very common thing. On different holidays, we have different kind of cookies for different reasons. But yeah, the subguniyot is very, very popular too. Jelly doughnuts is like a huge thing for Hanukkah.

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Yeah. Well, and I think it's really cool to learn about as well, because I remembered when, Ashley, you were talking about how you learned a few songs back in school. I remember when it would be around the holiday season and in music class in elementary school, we'd always be learning all the holiday songs. And I remember learning a few Jewish songs as well, but I just never was taught much about it. Granted, I only have one Jewish person in my family, but that would be on my stepfather's side. So I don't really speak with her that much, but it's fascinating to learn about and learn about like just the significance that one kind of food and how you

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guys do things can hold. It's cool, it's interesting for sure. It's very interesting. Perspective, it's like it's even not just with food, right? Like if you talk to a rabbi and I talk to plenty of them, you'll talk to them and be like, why do we do this? Why we do that? And like you'll think that you knew that you like originally like knew the answer like although you're asking it's like okay like a rabbi will always tell you the opposite of what you thought it's like why do we eat latkes rabbi like aren't they're delicious and you know they're maybe I guess they're like you can assume different things but it will tell you something that you know it's kind of just like epiphany like it's like an epiphany to the mind and it's like okay well I guess that makes sense like like the oil part the oil aspect of it is just uh it makes it makes complete sense and sometimes it's just such like a brain twister because usually the opposite just it makes it makes complete sense and sometimes it's just something such like a brain twister because usually the opposite is the answer and sometimes the answer is not opposite. It's very interesting but they tend to get you a lot with with the reasoning. Another very important piece that's not a food, it's not a snack either, it's more of just like it's called Hanukkah gelt. So Hanukkah gelt are basically just coins, okay? It's basically chocolate coins. You'll have like a circular coin that looks like a quarter or a 50 cent coin. Those ones are typically a little bit bigger. And it's basically wrapped in like a gold or like a silver aluminum to make it look like an actual coin, but you unwrap it and it's just chocolate. You just eat the chocolate. But the idea is that you play dreidel and you use Hanukkah Gelt as like a way of gambling, sort of like poker chips.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. That's like another thing that they have, which is really cool. And so, yeah, it's another food. It's not really a food or like a snack, but it's more of like a tasty...

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It's like a small dessert.

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Yeah, it's a... I guess currency has a flavor.

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I guess, yeah. Well, it beats if you just lose some chocolate coins, that's a little better than losing all your money.

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Sure, yeah, definitely. You're still walking out the door with a smile on your face, you're like, I didn't lose that much, but no, it definitely took like an L or two if you don't have any guilt left. Some people take their guilt very seriously.

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I have one more question for you that I can think of right now. You said that the latkes, I think I'm saying that right, are topped with applesauce and sour cream.

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Is there any significance to that or is it just?

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That's a good question too. Um, I'm not really aware. I think it's just mainly like it's like it's meant to like accommodate it because like if you eat it, it's like, I mean you're like, maybe it's, maybe it has to do something with its temptations. Like, it's not like a random kid like eats the latke. Like he's probably going to probably want to dip it in ketchup or something, right? And that's so not within the spirit of the holiday, I guess. Maybe that's a reason. I'm literally just coming up with this right now, but this is what I would assume. The whole reason as to why they probably do the sour cream and applesauce, although it does taste really good together, it's basically, I guess, on how sour cream is not bitter, but it's more of just like, it's kind of like a savory flavor in a sense where it's like, it has a little bit of like a tardiness to it. So I guess it's kind of like, if you really want to go down to like what it symbolizes, it could mean that the original taste is, original taste and the feeling of this holiday when it initially started was a little bit sort of, you know, not bitter, but sort of just like hard and not like, not sweet. And then, but the end of it, it was sweet, you know? So like the aftertaste is sweet with the applesauce so it's like the idea that we went from such a time of of it just being so difficult and ending it on such a Highlight and it being the festival of lights and a miracle and it being a sweet ending I guess is why they do applesauce is probably why they do that is to just commemorate that but um Yeah, that probably could be the reason why

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Yeah, very interesting. I just wanted to know if there was...

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Right, I'd have to look into that. I'd have to look into that. It's a great question.

0:19:22
Yeah. My question for Lador is, and well, I really want to ask this question in general, and this is kind of picking up from the previous episode. Sure. of what you can and cannot eat. And I want to know if this is true or not because I know that some people in the Jewish community don't eat unclean food, or unclean food as in mollusk, shellfish, etc. I can't think of anything else at the moment.

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Sure, no, no, you're right on point. In Judaism, I think that one of the biggest and most important things is sort of just like what we put into our bodies and how we eat and what we eat, kosher is a way of life. If you live a kosher life, it's just it's not only your food but just like on how you you live your life and what you do, but the idea of kosher, okay, is sort of like halal in a sense where like you eat something like it could be like a brisket or something that came from like a cow or a chicken or something like that. The idea is that the animal should have been slaughtered in a very humane, peaceful way. The animal should have not felt a single ounce of pain while you eat this meat. So the meat, it tends to be a little bit softer and not as tough as normal meat that you'll find in the store. It's a little bit more expensive because there is special people watching this procedure happening, and they obviously need to get paid, but it's also just like, they also, a rabbi blesses the food and before they even put it in the stores. They say a prayer and whatever. But as far as the cleanliness, okay, so when a steak or a piece of meat is being sold for kosher, a kosher meat, not only was it slaughtered in the kosher way, but it was also prepared in a kosher way. So I'm not too exactly with the precision of exactly what I'm saying right now, but I know that they tend to salt the meat and take out all of the blood of the actual meat itself before they even cook it. So it's not that there's a lot of blood in the packaging. We cannot really eat blood, because if you did, then it's just like, I guess it's just not a kosher thing, but they salt it a certain way, and they kind of sanitize the meat in a kosher way before you can even cook it. So we tend to do that. I grew up in a very, in a kosher home, so all the meat in my house and everything was basically practically kosher. I grew up with a life of a kosher style life. So I would go out to, you know, I would go eat like a casual person at a fast food restaurant or whatever. And obviously a lot of religious people wouldn't do that because it's not a kosher restaurant. But for kosher style, I would not combine meat and cheese. We're not supposed to do that. I would not eat pork or just unkosher like animals completely. I wouldn't do that. I would like refuse to do that. So I would keep it kosher style. So the food wasn't actually kosher. Like I would eat like the hamburger, but it was kosher style, but the meat itself wasn't kosher because it was just normal meat. And that's how I sort of like grew up living my life. Around the age of like 19, I became like very, I wanted to, like, I just, I definitely wanted, I had very personal interests on just like wanting to explore on other kinds of foods. And like, I had to try what a pepperoni pizza was like. I just like I was like I had to try it. I I'm not a big fan. I think that it takes pizza to the next level, but it's it's not something that's like necessary for me. I keep more I'm more kosher style nowadays for sure. Not like I was when I was 19. But I tried that I tried cheeseburgers and a few things like that, which they're all I get. They're tasty, like I get the hype, but I don't really do that anymore. So I'm more back to my kosher style. It was just, you know, 19 young and trying to do things out of the ordinary. But yeah, there's definitely a way of life of how we eat and how we prep this food. And it's very significant to our diets. We just have to do that. Kosher is very important. And a kosher life is a totally different conversation because that gets down to just like how you operate and what you do. And it's a very broad term, but kosher food is what we typically focus on the most.

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That's really good to know. I'm glad that you were able to clear my confusion in the past because actually my grandma from my mom's side leaned more towards Judaism. I believe she converted from her original faith to being Jewish. Wow. So I kind of learned a little bit from my grandma even though I never met her because she passed before I was born but I learned some stuff from my mom that she learned from her mom and where I got the whole not eating unclean foods and that stuff I learned from them. Right. And actually I kind of do practice a little bit and I say a little bit for a reason because I still eat the normal foods out there but I do kind of practice the kosher diet dish. I mean I tried mollusk and shellfish before but now I'm just refraining from it because I'm not too interested in it anymore. But like I said I kind of practice the kosher diet but I still eat the normal foods.

0:24:18
No that's that's great that's great. I think that what you're doing and the way that you're thinking is uh beyond what most people are doing. Like 99% of this world are not really thinking that way. They're just eating what they can and what they have in front of them. And I think that just like taking into consideration of what you're putting into your body. And I mean, pork is, you know, if people wanna eat pork, good for you, totally cool. And I'm like no judgment at all because it's such a common thing here and not just America, but in the entire world. But it is very interesting to know that someone is taking those precautions. You know, I think that that's really interesting. And you tend to, it's interesting because even though you're subconsciously making these little decisions to not eat specific foods, it could sort of reflect on how you operate with the rest of your life. You'll know how to say no to some things or some opportunities that are not really of your interest and you'll be able to just kind of move in a certain way, knowing that what you want, what you like, and kind of just putting yourself in an environment that is like so in Benefit to yourself and what you're trying to achieve in life And so just like these small steps of just like limiting even if it's food Kind of just like reflects on how you move in life And I think that that's just like it's a it's a small things that make the big things happen You know and that's and that's really inspiring so good for you. That's awesome here Ashley

0:25:33
Thank you, and thank you so much for explaining the situation of the unclean foods.

0:25:40
Of course, of course. I wish I was a little bit more knowledgeable. I'm not a rabbi like I said, I'm not a preacher, not a teacher, but it's definitely, it's fun to think about it because I haven't thought about it like this in a while. So I appreciate you guys having me to being able to do this, to elaborate. It's very fun and very freeing. So hopefully I'll get to see you guys around soon.

0:25:58
You'll see me soon because we do work. Right. It's always fun when you're around. Yeah. All right, do we have any final thoughts? I just wanted to say thank you for talking about this with us because it's not something that I have been taught much in schools, in my family, by friends, and it's not something that I've ever thought to look much into. So just learning about the history and kind of current things that I did know about culture, but it's just fascinating to learn more about.

0:26:35
But yeah, I just wanted to thank you for talking about that with us.

0:26:38
Of course, it's been an honor to be here and just to discuss and talk today on this lovely Saturday. So thank you guys. I had a great time.

0:26:46
Thank you.

0:26:47
Thank you.

0:26:48
Thank you, and before we do finish, my question to all of you is if you do celebrate Hanukkah and or tried any of the dishes that Lador mentioned in the episode, and like let us know. We have our socials up, we have our Instagram and Twitter, we're open to a nice decent conversation and we're willing to see what all of you have to say and all that kind of stuff. So with that, I'm going to end the episode by saying thank you again to Lador for appearing again want to come back do I of course I would love to be here

0:27:17
I'd love to do this again. There's endless things to talk about

0:27:19
It feels like two episodes are not enough. We just want to learn more about what everyone else has to say, right?

0:27:25
And I would even I'd even love to be part of a show where somebody else is talking about their their foods and just like Hearing their story too. So this is like I said, this is such an opportunity for so many amazing things. And what you guys are doing here is literally like you're changing the world. And it's such a good environment. So good for you guys. Really looking forward to seeing this podcast grow. So I'm very

0:27:50
excited for you. Thank you. And please feel free to spread the word because we're just trying to

0:27:55
spread good and unite people. Of course, that food is one of the most like unifying things in the world. And there's always so many things. So, you know, I love it, so.

0:28:06
Yes, absolutely. Thank you all for listening and take care.

0:28:11
Thank you. Thank you.

0:28:11
Thank you.

Transcribed with Cockatoo